Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg at Labour conference: the polls, Reform, asylum, digital ID, VAT and his leadership

Well, we've got a lot of hard work uh to do. We've achieved great things in the first year of the Labor government. We said we would do 2 million extra NHS appointments. We've done 5 million and confidence in the NHS is going up. So, that's a good thing.

We said that we'd rolled out child care. This is child care from 9 months to four years. For parents and carers, that's thousands of pounds saved for children. It's a gamecher. I am sick and tired of stories about four-year-olds arriving in reception, some reading quite well, others virtually in nappies.

So, we're going to change that and make sure every single child gets to the starting line of education in an equal position. And just this month, uh, we've introduced the Hillsborough law, which is going to change thousands of lives. We won the order for frigots from Norway. That's 10 billion pounds. That's that's 15 years of ship building on the Clyde.

So, there's a lot we've achieved, but we've got to do more. Um, we inherited a complete mess, a broken economy, a broken public services. Uh, we said we would change that. And, um, I always said that would take time, but I do understand people are frustrated because if they lived through 14 years of failure, they want change to come more quickly. So, I do understand the frustration.

Well, Laura, we won last year in July a mandate to change the country.

I always said that would take time. Um, we will be judged at the next election quite rightly on whether we have improved living standards, people feel better off, on whether the public services are better, particularly the NHS, and whether people feel safe and secure.

In politics, there are always going to be comments about leaders and leadership, particularly at times like conference.

Always focus on what is it we're trying to achieve? What are we delivering? Just this month, the Hillsborough law that is so you were with me at the Liverpool Echo

Writing an injustice that's gone on for 36 years, but also changing the position for thousands of people in the future.

Well, patriotic renewal is fixing the problems in the country that we inherited, but changing the country as we do so. Let me just give you two or three practical examples. We've got to get the economy working. We got to get wealth creation, but it needs to be everywhere across the country. And that is what I want to change.

Not going back to economic growth that is in some parts of the country, but not all parts of the country with the NHS. Obviously, we need to fix it, but I want to do more than fix it. I want to make sure it's fit for the future. So, that means bringing it closer to people, recognizing the way in which disease and illness has changed, making sure we're using technology as we go forward. And the other thing is changing the relationship between the state and people.

So last Thursday we rolled out the pride in place funding. This is 10 years worth of funding to places which in my view have been overlooked for too long. But what's different is instead of those places having come having to come to Whiteall cap in hand asking for approval of what's needed in their place, we've said you've got skin in the game. You've got a better idea what's going to work in your community. you make those decisions.

So, it's about renewing, but it's patriotic because it's about bringing the whole country with us. I love and have pride in my country and I want to serve the whole of our country, our beautiful, tolerant, diverse country and I want to serve the whole of that country. And I was arguing against reform because reform do not believe in that country. They want to tear that country apart. What was said last week uh about deporting migrants who are lawfully here, who've been here for years, working in our hospitals, and our schools, running businesses, our neighbors, and reforms say they want to deport them.

That would tear our country apart. We are at the moment a leading member of the coalition of the willing, coraling and bringing together European countries to fight the aggression of Putin. Imagine if reform came in and they were cozing up to Putin and the politics that would have the impact that would have on our security and defense. And that's why I say to my party and my main message to this conference is this is a different fight. It is a fight about the future of our country about who we are as patriotism is and what we stand for and our place in the world.

It's a fight we must be in and it's a fight we must win. And I'm absolutely determined that we will.

Well um I thought for some time that the left uh got it wrong because

I mean soon after I was a politician um I went to uh met a number of people there who wanted to tell me what their concerns were.

and we need to understand what people's concerns are.

Well, we came into power one year ago. One of my frustration is I came into politics and I spent nine years in opposition. That means nine years voting and losing. We've had one year in power and what we've done is take measures to improve law enforcement to tackle illegal migration. I want to strengthen the powers of those who enforce our borders, our law enforcement through the borders bill.

Reform of the tourists vote against that. We've struck a returns deal with France. That means for the first time since we left the EU because back in the the days of the EU, we could actually return to France and other countries. Now we can return to France. And we're doing we've done 35,000 returns since we've been in power, which is the highest number for nearly 10 years.

Yes, I have seen asylums hotel and I want

I want to reduce the number of people in asylum hotels. I want to empty those asylum hotels. I completely understand the frustration that people have in relation to the hotels. It frustrates me because what happened was we inherited tens of thousands of asylum claims which hadn't been processed by the last government. You have got to process them.

So they they then open the hotels to put people into hotels. It's my job to empty it. So what I've done to do that is to ensure that we've got many more people processing claims where we process claims and people are found that they've got no right to be here. We're returning them to the country

I'd like to bring that forward. I'd like to bring that forward.

Well, we got to process the claims. I'm looking at alternative accommodation. um and uh doing everything we can to bring that forward. I do understand the concern, but it was a problem with if you leave tens of thousands of people and don't process their claims, they are in a place where they can't go backwards or forward. They can't be returned to the country they came from because they haven't been processed

Our job as ever is is to fix the problems we have.

No.

It shouldn't be happening. It's not fair and I understand that. We will stop it

Well, as soon as we can, but we will stop it. It's not fair. I completely understand that. Um and it shouldn't be happening.

Well, I want to look at the rights of appeal and see whether we can't improve that because um there are too many examples of for example people coming here on student visas and doing their studies and at the end of that exercise then claiming asylum. We've got even in the last few weeks when we've had the returns agreement up with France when we've tried to return people there are claims put in hours before the return which could have been put in weeks before. So we need to look across the board. I think um we need to look at every aspect of illegal migration upstream looking at the causes which of course um are often poverty, climate change, persecution. look at the causes and as a global leader see what we can do about that with other countries much more law enforcement particularly with France on the northern border processing those claims returning people who shouldn't be here looking across the appeal system to see whether we can't make it more effective and more efficient all of that needs to be done including introducing as I announced this week uh digital ID so that we are clear in the principle that you cannot work in the United Kingdom if you do not have ID ID because too many people are able to get into uh the black economy and work illegally in this country and we need to uh deal with that and deal with that effectively.

absolutely convinced that amongst the reasons that people travel through France which is a safe country to come to the United Kingdom amongst the reasons is because it's easier to work in our illegal economy than it is in other countries and we have to deal with

We need to be really clear. you must have uh ID, mandatory digital ID in order to work because we have to stop illegal working. If you look at any of the raids, we've we've massively increased the number of raids um on uh working premises. Um it is absolutely clear that people are working illegally in in numbers.

Well, the difference is this is on point of starting not a retrospective exercise as it now is. It is an automatic collection of the information uh by uh the government. So we know exactly who is working in our economy and it will help us enforce the rules that are there. But there's no point people saying to me why do we need it when we all acknowledge there is a problem. People are working illegally in our economy.

It is amongst the reasons that people want to come to the United Kingdom. We have to deal with that. I made a pledge that we would do whatever was necessary pull use whatever tools uh were available to deal with illegal migration. I intend to do so.

Yes, I do. And and I think this is fundamental to who we are as a country. We are a proud tolerant country, reasonable-minded, live and let live. Um and we are a diverse country where people have come here for centuries to this country to make up who we are. It is one thing to say we're going to remove illegal migrants, people who have no right to be here.

I'm up for that. It is a completely different thing to say we are going to reach in to people who are lawfully here and start removing them. They are our neighbors. They're people who work in our economy. They are part of who we are.

It will rip this country apart. And if you're patriotic, you want to serve the whole of your country, everybody in your country, and have an ability to bring that country together and walk forward towards the challenges. You cannot do that if you are divisive. if you only truly want to serve a section of our country. And that's why the fight with reform is different.

Most elections have always been um labor or conservative. Um this is a different election that we're facing. We have not had a proposition like reform in this country ever before. We've seen it in France and Germany and plenty of other countries. This is a different fight.

It is a fight about who we are as a country. It goes to the soul of of our future. it will be heard and and the effects will be there for generations. And that's why I'm saying to my party, um, you know, it's all very well naval gazing, but we've got a big argument to make here. We've got a big fight that we've got to be in, and we've got to win that fight.

Well, I do think that is a racist policy. I do think it's immoral. It needs to be called out for what it is.

No, I think that there are plenty of people who either vote reform or are thinking of voting reform who are frustrated. Uh they had 14 years of failure under the Conservatives. They want us to change things. They may have voted Labor a year ago and they want the change to come more quickly. I actually do understand that because if for 14 years um your living standards haven't got any better and your public services have declined then of course you want change

Well, uh firstly, we've said we're going to build 1.5 million homes and the new

The towns are part of that. The planning applications reflect the position a year ago because it takes time to come through. But just hear me out on this. 1.5 million homes. And the reason for that is because the dream of home ownership, that base camp for aspiration for opportunity uh has been effectively snuffed out for young people.

People now on average over 35 before they can afford to get their own home. That is unacceptable. That is a whole generation of lost people. New towns are part of what we're doing in the 1.5 million. But look, the central charge you're putting to me is a really important one.

I said before the election, it will take more than 12 months to turn around 14 years of failure. Um, and it will take more than 12 months. It will take time. That's why we needed a 5-year mandate. But do I understand the frustration that people have?

If you've lived through 14 years um without your u, you know, money in your pocket and your public going up, your public services being what they should be, then of course you want change more quickly. But I'm I can't sit here uh today, nor did I say before the election, this can all be turned around on a flick of a switch. It's going to take time.

Well, Laura, just on the first point of your question, if I may, um, I came into politics to change lives for the better, to change um, our NHS and make sure that it was fit for purpose to win investment in for jobs across the country. Got record investment coming in. Will you rule out raising a massive exercise in size uh, where thousands of jobs now will be created as a result of that? the work we did with the US just a week ago on civil nuclear raising VAT to pay for the public services when I'm in politics to change lives. It's not a popularity contest uh for me.

It's about changing lives. On the question of the budget, obviously the budget will be in November as you know and I'm not going to sit here and set out what's going to be in the

The manifesto stands.

in that manifesto and the manifesto stands. Obviously the details the manifesto stands. We made those commitments but they will not be unpicked. The the manifesto stands Laura can't be clearer. Uh

We um put that manifesto before the electorate. Uh we got elected and that manifesto stands. I'm not going to go through the details of what uh may be in the budget. Obviously, it's two months away and no prime minister and no chancellor would ever sit here uh and uh indicate two months out uh what may or may not be in the budget. But the manifesto stand

The manifesto stands. We made those commitments. We stand by those commitments.

Well, I don't want to take away rights, but I do need we do need to reform this system. Um,

Well, I'm not indicating that in the slightest because we're looking at various options. What I'm doing is looking at the broad principles. As it stands, special educational needs uh doesn't work well for most people. And I mean, just hear me out, Laura, because PMQ's prime minister's questions um every Wednesday at 12:00. Um the issue on which I've had more questions from across the house so from tries from Libdem um and from my own side the issue that's come up more than anything is special educational needs and it is always MPs raising a concern in their constituency about the way in which special educational needs works at the moment.

So we've got to look at that and we've got to improve it. Now we haven't come to final decisions uh on that and therefore I'm not in a position to lay out the proposals to you. we will do in due course, but I'm absolutely clear in my mind the current system isn't working. Um, and I think pretty well across the house people accept that. Uh, we need to change it.

I've actually issued an invitation to other parties to work with us on this because it's going to matter not just for the next year or two or three, but for many years to come and so we need to get it right.

No, I didn't. Uh I bought a field for my mom and my dad because they love donkeys and my mom was very ill and she couldn't move around anymore. She by the end of her life had her leg amputated uh and she could barely communicate. She was very very ill. She loved her donkeys and I wanted her to be able to see her donkeys.

I was a lawyer. I had quite a lot of money. I bought a field for20,000 pounds at the back of their house and I said, "Here's your field. It's yours for as long as you may live. You could put your donkey into a trust." That's because that's the I didn't create trust.

I simply bought a field and I said to mom and dad, "This is for you." It was And also, by the way, Laura, it was £20,000. We're not looking at a vast estate with great tax.

But the idea of setting up some complicated trust for a 20,000 agricultural field which then housed four donkeys for all the time my mom and dad it was my mom she she um was able where they had a little outhouse at the edge of the field and she was able in the end to to see the donkeys and my dad built a little um sort of porchway so he could wheel the wheelchair out so she could touch the donkeys. That's what it was for and I gave it to them. I had enough money at the time as a lawyer. a gift to my mom and dad

Well, um, he's doing a very good job as the mayor of Manchester and I work very closely with him as I do with all the mayors. One of the things we've changed is the way government and mayors work because mayors very much felt shut out by the last government. We now work with them and I think Andy would be the first to accept that.

Comments about leaders and leadership are part and parcel of being in politics. Uh it is the bread and butter of politics. Every leader gets it. It always comes out particularly at conference. It's it's in the job description.

I don't focus on that. I focus on what have we got to get done? What are we able to achieve? I focus on how can we drive, you know, 2 million extra appointments for the NHS is what we promised. We delivered five.

I'm really pleased and proud of that because contracts for jobs the like of which we haven't seen for years. I'm really proud of that.

No. Look, people are entitled to their views and I'm not sticking my fingers in my ear in the slightest. What I am saying is that it is important to keep focusing what it is that we are delivering and saying absolutely in clear terms the difference it makes to people's lives. That Hillsborough law means that thousands of people, whether it's the 97 or Grenfell or Wind Rush or Horizon or Infected Blood and all the other uh scandals, will have a degree of justice, but other people will never have to go through that again. But change lives for 15 years are going to change lives.

But Laura, I will be judged at the next election on three things I think more than anything else. One, have we improved living standards? people genuinely feel better off. Two, have we improved public services? Is the NHS in a better place and people can feel it?

And three, do people feel safe and secure in their home, in their neighborhood, and that their country is secure? Um, and I'm very happy and will be judged, rightly judged, uh, in that way. Uh, we won a mandate, a considerable mandate. Um, I led the party into that mandate. It's a five-year mandate, and I'll be judged at the end of that five years.

and quite right too. But I just need the space to get on and do what we need to do uh to do those three things above all else. But also uh in a world which is more volatile than any of us have known for a very long time to ensure that the United Kingdom is safe and secure which is why we're doing all the work we are on the coalition and the willing making sure that on defense and security we are seen once again as a leading nation.

I am saying we have got the fight of our lives ahead of us because we've got to take on reform. We got to beat them. And so now is not the time for introspection or naval gazing. There is a fight that we are all in together. and every single member of our party and our movement.

Actually, everyone who cares about what this country is, whether they vote Labor or otherwise, it's the fight of our lives for who we are as a country. We need to be in that fight, united, not naval glazing. I'm absolutely clear in my mind about that and that's what I'm going to be talking about at conference.