Heretics podcast with Andrew Gold: why he fell out with Farage

Well, I think London actually is is quietly dying. I I I I mean when I was young and I was in London during the the uh 80s, well 70s, late '7s, 80s and early 90s, London was booming and everybody wanted to be in London because it was it was it was free, it was entrepreneurial, it was the place everybody wanted to be. Uh now I I I I don't think that's the case. I I think people are leaving London. And the the the funny enough I had a an Addison Lee driver who was actually from Sudan.

So he was Muslim. We had a long chat, very nice chat. Uh and even he said he is telling his children not to stay in the UK because he doesn't think they have a future here. Now that's pretty serious. Yeah, but when I, you know, I walk now, I go, you know, I live down in in in in Baron's Court when I'm in London and it's not what it used to be.

The restaurants aren't full. Uh it's a very very different place. And if you if you walk around London uh late at night, which sometimes I do when I've been voting in Parliament or whatever, which is again another ridiculous thing because Parliament should have set times to vote, not not people having to hang around till sometimes 11:00 at night to vote. Uh, it really is dying. I think Andrew, I I get the feeling London is not a healthy place and I think we can lay that that charge firmly at the door of Sadi Khan who uh who I think's been a terrible mayor of London and I concur with Donald Trump in his view of Sadi Khan.

Uh so no, I I I think it's not wellrun. I think it's become overregulated. It's become like every part of Britain, it's become too petty. Uh I I mean the number of speed cameras, the amount of I mean the 20 mph limit frankly should be dispensed with immediately. What should happen is it should now be all of these all of these petty rules, regulations and and fetterss on people's uh um ability to be entrepreneurial should be removed and and and London should be turned back into what it should be, which is a a great place to live, a place of enterprise and a place where everybody embraces each other and is is open.

And I I don't I think it's becoming rather a closed flower.

Well, again, in my day, it was a very different social scene. We didn't have mobile phones. We didn't have uh a lot of the stuff that that I've been forced to uh uh uh come into the dark ages uh from. And um my children call me a cuz I I I mean I I I can just about get by on most social media stuff and most uh IT equipment, but I I will never be as proficient or as comfortable with it as they are because I think the reason is people no longer communicate uh in the same way that they used to. Everything is a message.

It's an email. It's a WhatsApp message. It's a you know some other direct messaging system. And very often the spoken word is entirely different to a short message and people can get the wrong end of the stick. Uh and again you can you can get to feel uh the inner soul of people when you talk to them.

I actually do like to speak to people and I I hope that in in in in the new age uh I mean doing business I don't however good you are on the IT but trying to get a utility company or or or somebody now to answer your your need is very different difficult and in great Yarmouth we are spending a lot of our time trying to trying to sort out our constituents problems with uh faceless institutions who I don't think put service at the top of their agenda. They put their salaries and their pensions and their remuneration at the top, not the service to the people they're supposed to be looking after.

Well, I don't think I'm controversial. I I've just given you a book on one of our businesses, the family business, which is a very rare beast. It's been in construction. It's been going for over a hundred years. We employ people, many of whom have worked for us for 50 years.

It's very much a family affair and the shareholders of which I'm now the shareholder after my father died in in in 2022. Uh we we haven't had a dividend out of the company for years, but everybody gets paid. Uh it's in a very volatile business in in construction. And at the end of the day, we managed to keep all these people employed and and it it was my father's life. You know, he loved all these people.

They were part of his family. And I feel a duty to carry that on. And I think that's the great thing about family businesses as opposed to corporations that are owned by faceless shareholders who don't really care about the staff. Uh then don't really care about the moral basis of that business, which again, if if you're a family business, your staff can knock on the door and come and talk to you. They know who you are.

If you're a board where the board owns one or two% of some corporation, it's a very different story. And again, they're all paying themselves more and more. And arguably, uh, uh, in the current environment, they're making less and less profits, a lot of them, unless they're in a situation where they're a monopoly, which again is something I would be legislating against. Monopolies are a bad thing, not a good thing. So, competition is a good thing.

I think charity starts really, Andrew, with the family. The family is the most important bedrock of of of our society. And from the family comes the family business comes the whole sort of moral base of our society which I think uh the venal left has done their best to break up. You know that the Blairite legislation is has been designed to uh debit the family and credit as you say the sort of faceless uh uh society which in which wrongs and evil flourishes.

Well, I I I think as I've said in the past, until uh really I I I I treat John Major as an irrelevance. I mean but until uh 1992 really we had a pretty stable society and Maggie left the country in rude health financially and and I think structurally and in terms of self-belief from then uh really that the architects of our downfall are Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Peter Mandlesson and Alistister Campbell, my old mucker who supports Burnley who I've not only uh uh uh exchanged words with in my boardroom at Southampton, but also in the Burnley boardroom where he he he's often to be seen probably pork barreling a free ticket. But anyway, um so no, I I I look I I I think Blair, they they had a plan. They undermined our legal system, which which I'm happy to talk about. Uh they undermined our constitution, the unwritten constitution that we have.

They they effectively passed laws like the Human Rights Act, which embeds within it the ECR. They passed the Equalities Act that was a sort of browneyed piece of legislation and that comes on top of legislation passed previously which again I I think was not good for the cohesion of our society but the but the genesis of the real damage has come from Tony Blair and since then we have actually seen uh immigration which you mentioned rising very fast and unfortunately then when when the when the coalition government of Kle and Cameron was in power they did nothing to change that and then Cameron had his own majority which he did he did nothing to to change and again I'm happy to talk about my experience in parliament where again I think um part of the problem is that that these all these changes meant that instead of parliament being the sovereign body that governs the country uh Blair and Blair and and and Cameron hollowed out the m the MPs the the gene pool of parliament and then you've had a sort of series of of of of what I call uh expenses scandals where the MPs who are supposed to be many gods elected by the people to represent the people usually well known in their own constituencies or that was historically the case. What's happened is Parliament's actually been taken over by the staff that work in parliament. So the commissioner on standards who sits in judgment with an extremely opaque rulebook which needs to be radically overhauled. uh you've got, you know, all of this the staff and all the rules are designed to stop MPs being functional.

And indeed, the more you do as an MP, and I I find this myself because I have been doing quite a lot over the last whatever it is 15 months because I'm not in this to do anything other than change the way we're governed. You know, I give my parliamentary salary to charity. Uh I'm not in it for the money. I don't I don't need the money. I I actually it's cost me money because we can talk about reform and the legal fees and we're not finished with those yet.

Um so I think parliament's been undermined by and really the parliamentary process is a joke now. It's it's actually the civil service and the permanent secretaries who run Britain and they're not elected and a lot of them are extremely woke uh uh they are questionable people in terms of both their morals from in terms of their outlook and in certainly now in terms of the fetterss on them which are supposed to be put in place by the civil ser by the um front bench and our front bench now has virtually nobody who has any experience of running anything. So, as you know, if if if people aren't held to account, then ultimately they're not elected, they outlive most parliaments. Uh, and effectively, therefore, it's them that's governing the country, and it's them that's letting the British people down. Parliament's just a sherade.

I mean, parliament is a it's it's a show for the people. It shouldn't be. and and really what has to happen now is the MPs have to stand up for themselves and start to actually take back the power that the constitution is supposed to vest in parliament. I mean again just to give you an example if if parliament passes a law but that law is trumped by a global law like in the case of the ECR then our laws aren't any more effective. So therefore law we pass in parliament isn't always going to be effective in this country.

So so we've been undermined by I I think the the the people now who if you like that the administrative uh structure around the MPs has taken over that wasn't helped by the expenses scandal which again we won't go into that but I think there were understandable reasons as to why MPs thought it was okay uh but in the end it it worked against them and it neuted parliament. So I I I think again the British people who vote need to open their eyes to the fact that parliament is just it's just a sort of media play thing to entertain them. The real power as I always say watch what the hands are doing. Watch what the hands of the permanent sectors are doing. Watch what's happening in the home office, the foreign office, all the key offices of of government administration.

that's who really and then see how how well that front bench which as I say none of whom have had any proper business experience uh watch how well they're holding to account cuz I can tell you they don't and when I ask these parliamentary questions I think I've asked more parliamentary questions than any other MP sometimes I get an answer and when I ask the front bench you can see they're visibly shocked the the civil service has got the answers to all these questions the front bench doesn't hasn't got a clue they're more interested in titled taffling about what's happened in Westminster yesterday, which is irrelevant. So that's who really runs the country. The 20 the whatever 23 24 25 26 permanent sectors. I mean I can name some. You probably can't name any of them.

They're the people who run Britain.

she knows. She she knows. I mean I've I've spoken to Liz. I I I think look Liz and Quasi didn't play their hand particularly well. uh and they probably needed to bring more people with them and they gave toads like Andrew Bailey the opportunity of of undermining uh uh their effectively that they were elected to govern the country and these these these sort of bureaucrats all conspire to to undermine her.

You know what but she she went at it a bit like and I've told her this a bit like a bull in a china shop but I think what she was trying to do was essentially right.

well I I I I think again uh people underestimate the power of Well, first of all, let me say I I haven't edited it at all. I I told you you could ask you ask me whatever you want.

But I mean, no, look, look at the rise of PR. Look at the rise of spin. Look at the rise of, you know, the the the sort of the vested interests in the media. It's all it's all one big game now. I think the judiciary is in it.

Uh it's all one big game. And actually the real voices are often drowned out by by by this what I call malign uh framework within which Britain's being undermined. So So no, I I look I mean it's it's an eye openener for me. I've spent my life trying to uh make my own way. I'm I'm self-made trying to uh provide for my four children, trying to indulge my passion which is farming.

And I'm fortunate I've managed to acquire a farm and I I love it. It's the real world. It keeps you humble. Um but I I look at what's happening in in in Parliament and I and I and with the experience I've got in multiple industries, multiple businesses, 20 years in the city. I I I can seldom get a question in.

I'm an independent MP. Uh and even though I've got expertise in football, even talking on the football governance bill was very difficult for me because I have very little standing. And parliament's not interested in actually uh uh going to people who've got knowledge. It's interested in uh in running using raw power. And the power of the the elected government, Andrew, is in it's incredible.

They can sideline people. They can ignore debate. They can they can they can filibuster. They can So, so with the rape gang inquiry, I've got my own privately uh crowdfunded rape gang inquiry. The government's promised us a statutory inquiry, but you know, several times there was Esther McB and I were were going to have a debate on it in parliament.

And it was it was literally, you know, they keep pushing it back. They can use the agenda. They can slip in an urgent question or a ministerial statement and suddenly, you know, you've run out of parliamentary time. it gets pushed on

or the debate gets telescoped. So instead of having 5 hours, you end up with 3 hours or 2 hours or 1 hour.

Well, I I I think there's no question that the establishment uh the more work we're doing. And and and just so everybody knows, I mean, we we raised about £600,000 from uh 20 just over 20,000 people. We we we had to return a bit of money because we had to vet it properly and make sure it was all co proper sort of pucker money. Yeah. And what we've been doing is I've got a fantastic team working on this and you know Sammy Woodhouse and and and Rob Bates and and we've got some really dedicated people.

Yeah. So yeah, from what we can see and we put out a statement the other day, it's been going on in we think at least 87 areas. That means many more towns and cities than that. This is areas. So it's it's been it's running deep through the country.

It's been running through the country since 2000. uh uh uh just as you as you as you as you mentioned as immigration started to go up dramatically and it's a case of the establishment and that's the police that's social services it's the NHS it it's local politicians it it it's all of the establishment have literally turned a blind eye and walked along the other side of the street vulnerable uh uh white workingclass girls have been richly abused uh by largely uh Pakistani Muslim men. There's some Afghanistanis and some Bangladeshes but the majority of it is Pakistani Muslim men. So yes, it's a blot on our history and we intend to finish our our our work which we we're doing then have a proper hearing which we'll probably have now in February. We were thinking trying to do it in November, but we just had too much to do.

Probably have it in February. And we'll then produce a report. We've, I think, played a part in in in forcing the government to announce they're going to have a statutory inquiry, which they did six, seven, eight weeks ago. I can't remember exactly. Uh, and they've announced nothing since.

So, we've got no terms of reference. We've got, you know, absolutely no information about how they're going to go about it. What they were trying to do, Andrew, was silo it. So they were trying to silo it in a small number of areas where they could say, "Oh, this is just a small isolated instant." But no, no, this is endemic. And I'm afraid I've paid him credit in the past and I'll pay it to him now.

Tommy Robinson was right about this when he first talked about it in Luton uh uh you know around I think it was 2002 34 somewhere somewhere around then. And he's been consistently right about it. And I think again he deserves credit for that. He he he's he's obviously got issues which people criticize him for which I I don't know about and I I don't never met Tommy. I've never spoken to Tommy.

But I think he deserves credit for what he's got right and uh you know I'm not sure he's had that. So, uh, look, I rap that's that's an example of where the establishments let down the British people. And you've had two-tier justice, two-tier policing, and it's really because people are frightened of basically admitting that post-war multicultural multi multicultural has failed. They're frightened of being called a racist, as Emily Mateless called me, which which I ignored.

Well, I I I mean, she was she was fine until until that moment and um you know, I I I thought it was an extraordinary interview. I I don't think it reflected very well on her. Uh I don't think she was in any way fair or objective. She accused me of making money out of the rape gang inquiry. I've actually given money to it, so she hadn't done any homework there.

Well, I think she did a bit. Uh, I tried not to lose my temper and um I I I sort of carried on asking her whether she thought it was okay for these vulnerable white working-class girls to be mass raped by Pakistani Muslim men. And she, you know, she's pretty shocked. And but I think she's a classic example of what I call the fully paid up liberal elite who uh, you know, like to basically sort of pretend this hasn't been happening. And and and arguably she's part of the problem.

if she's doing her job properly, she should have been exposing this. There were some journalists who did expose it. Um, and there are some people who've done some great work on it. Uh, and they deserve credit. But because the establishment knows it's let us down.

And let's face it, it's not just the rape gangs. I mean, you look at the post office and you look at the infected blood scandal and you look at the COVID response in its entirety entirety and you look at the decisions that that that the establishment makes are very often bad decisions, not good decisions and they don't want to admit that and and you know it takes years and years and years before eventually they will admit it but usually by then the generation of politicians has changed. So it's people sitting in judgment on what happened in the past. It's not people who are in parliament today. And I think that's probably uh the issue with uh uh with co I I I think personally I'm not jabbed.

I wouldn't touch those uh uh um experimental uh mRNA and and and gene therapy uh experiments which I think as you know there's a lot of uh uh uh concern about it from quite a lot of medical people now not least now we've got in the states we've got Kennedy uh he's going to be exposing a lot of this stuff as I think as I think um Donald Trump is keen to see. So I got them I got I got the facts. Let's just get the truth. I mean, I've got friends who've had myocarditis, you know, who have had uh blood clots, who've had all sorts of problems as a result of of of of the co strokes.

Well, he was at the reform conference recently.

Well, you're all right today, but who knows what the long-term effects of it are going to be. But look, I'm not I'm not a medical expert, but my instinct uh was not to have it. But that again, I think we'd all accept the fact that it was very difficult not to have it because the state tried to force people to have it. Well, that's not on. Whether it was the NHS, whether it was, you know, Matt Matt Hancock, whether it was, you know, uh, people who said it was your duty to have it because you might kill granny or whatever.

Well, the World Economic Forum Brigade, but but I look, I I think what what should have happened is quite simply, we should have said to those people who are vulnerable, you're vulnerable, isolate yourselves. Uh, and and Tegnel got it right in Sweden. It's a fact, you know, he he didn't lock down. Sweden's economy hardly missed a heartbeat, whereas ours has been decimated. Young people have been hugely affected by it.

You know, I I I had a young daughter who was at university. Her university didn't sit. I mean, it's very difficult uh for those young people. It disrupted their lives at a at a crucial period in in in in their education. So, I think the knock-on effects of it have been huge.

But I don't think that those who made those decisions are ready to admit that they got it wrong for for for a host of reasons.

Uh the the the length of the lockdown and the masks the stupiding masks 2 meters. Where's the science in that? Masks. Where's the science in that? There is none.

viruses viruses I mean it's like trying to stop the wind with a with a with with a Harris fence. I It's a joke. I think so. So look I I think in the end people are responsible for their own lives. This is part of the problem that we've got is the nanny state thinks it should be telling everybody how to live every day.

Well, we don't need that. What we need is minimal government and as as we say maximal uh delegation of powers to the family, to the individual and then society works. people find their own level and everybody everybody interfaces in the way they they see fit. Whereas if the state prescribes something and for goodness sake how many times in history have we seen statism fall flat on its face? I mean the most recent example was communists and communists thought they could centrally plan everything they can't.

But unfortunately I think we've gone a bit communist. I think Britain now has become a century planned economy. Uh part of that I think is is fascinating is that I think after the war as you probably know we we had the Marshall plan and probably in the most unselfish way the victors rebuilt Germany and Japan and uh which which doesn't always happen. Uh the French didn't want to as you as you as you may be aware but um because they were smashing up Germany's uh steel and coal industry again as they did in the first world war. So I I think part of the problem is we we we were altruistic.

we rebuilt those economies. America wanted a market for its goods and it and therefore it wanted to rebuild Germany and Japan. But I but I think gradually what happened is I think in 1980 the the US started to turn in in into multiple deficits. Um and from then on effectively uh I always say Jim James Goldsmith if you want to watch somebody got it right on this he was talking about this in the in the mid '9s. you know, outsourcing your skill pools to countries basically with a different culture and a different uh philosophy while you create indolence in your own society uh and you lose your skill skill bases there and you end up having to do the most heinenous things that we've done like quantitative easing.

I mean, which I call getting high on your own supply. uh you know and I I I had a 10-minute rule bill on it in parliament which is I think still alive. I think Christopher Choke very kindly keeps it alive for me. But you know that is that is that is like a third world dictator shortly before he descends into chaos uh printing his own money which is what we did. And now you know we've got we've got uh the toad bailey as I call him uh making another error in trying to unwind it at huge cost to the British taxpayer.

He doesn't need to be doing that. he should just let these wretched securities that they bought with printed money uh run off naturally and and and there would be less less damage. But who ever thought that that a what I call capitalist society would embrace quantitative easing? But the reason is James Goldmith was right. Uh we have effectively become the the Eloy to the to to to to Asia's Morlocks if if if you know what I mean.

HG Wells wrote this wonderful book called The Time Machine. I see. So, no. So, I think I think um I think that that's what's happened and we've become lazy. We have become self-indulgent.

We have lost our Protestant ethic. Uh we no longer uh demand the kind of exactitude that people used to in the past. It's happened before. So, I mean, you know, you know, you probably know that the Quakers uh didn't like what was happening. So they sort of broke away and almost only did business with each other and built the most fantastic businesses based on founded on honesty on hard work on enterprise.

Well, I think the key, Andrew, is again, and and and Emily called me racist. I'm not remotely a racist. I have no problem with targeted immigration. And I I don't mind where those people come from as long as they bring with them skills that are going to contribute to our society and they respect what Britain is, what Britain historically has been, how do you talk, what we are now. I mean, so you you they have to respect us and what what we haven't got is integration.

So these a lot of these people who've come here in huge numbers are lowkilled. They haven't integrated. They've been abusing the postal vote, which is something I think needs to be radically changed very quickly. Uh, and I don't think they respect our culture. In fact, I know they don't respect our culture.

So, for me, those people are not people we should be bringing in and damaging the fabric of our country. and and I you know I I today we had a we we we had a petition which we started at 9:15 this morning uh uh to effectively restore Britain which is my new political movement which is designed to unify with the help of my members we we we actually had our first direct democracy vote on detaining and deporting illegal migrants uh basically offshore so they they don't actually come here they're processed offshore uh and we need to find somewhere to do lots of places. I I mean think one thing that upset Emily was I suggested a a Scottish or an English island uh where we put up a tented camp and we give them food, sufficient food until we've processed them and or they've asked to go home. But settling them in hotels, I mean so our petition started at 9:15. We we had over 100,000 uh uh votes by uh uh 4:00 this afternoon, quarter to 4 this afternoon.

So ultimately I think I don't as I came into your studio I think we were hitting 109 or 110,000. So that was only started at 9:15 this morning. So that forces a a debate in Westminster Hall. I asked for a debate in the house last Thursday where the leader of the house uh reluctantly said if I asked for it I might get it even if he thought that what I'd suggested was a borant. I I don't know about you, but why is it aborant to discuss something which is at the top of everybody's agenda, which is arguably damaging our interests.

Well, Britain, as you know, has always been a very tolerant nation. In fact, we you know whereas Europe used to persecute the Hugenos and persecute the Jews and uh you know on the whole Britain brought allowed people to come here the Hugenos made a huge contribution as did as did a lot of Jewish people. They came here, they're very highly skilled, they're very intelligent, and they were welcome and they contributed. And I think a lot of them came to love the country more almost than some of the indigenous English who who British who who can sometimes take their country for granted. Certainly the left.

But this this current wave I think is incredibly damaging. And again, this is one of the things that uh the establishment has to admit they got wrong. And that's Blair, that's Cameron, particularly Boris.

It is important. I don't want people to say illegal means illegal. And if you come here illegally, if you if you or I break the law, what happens to us?

Well, I think there are there are three or four things. The first thing is the illegal what I call that that they call them asylum seek because they're actually not they're economic migrants. Okay. Yeah. So they should be dealt with first of all.

Those people living here illeg illegally which of which there are a lot need to be dealt with. The foreign criminals which are about 10 and a half thousand in our prisons need to be deported. Mhm. And I, as I've always said, and and again, this upset Emily uh was I said the families of of the rape gang uh perpetrators who are not English nationals, they should be deported as well. So, not just the perpetrator, but anyone who knew about it.

Uh you know, these people should be handing over perpetrators of this kind of of of violess. And so and and then we get to so the first thing is deal with the illegals and then you're quite right there's been vast amounts of legal migration but then you have to hold the home office to account for that because the home office their default position is to let people into the country and you have to ask yourself why because there are you know there are statistics proving that a lot of these low lowskilled people will end up being a cost to the British taxpayer. Now question, what is our government elected to do? In my simplistic and probably unintelligent view of life, they're elected to represent the interests of the British voter, the British taxpayer, and British society. They're not elected to carry out sort of global welfare or indulge their passion for some sort of woke concept that they that they that they think they should be pursuing.

No, they're servants of the people and they should be serving the interests of people who have helped build this country up, whose families whose whose forebears, everybody has played a part in in making Britain what it is. And it's about time, you know, we got a bit of backbone and we started to stand up. And I I thought this weekend, you know, I wasn't at the march, but I thought it was fantastic to see so many people in what was ultimately a very uh uh uh sort of friendly and and and nonviolent demonstration of how deeply people feel about this. And yet the mainstream media sort of start to again attack it. They they say nothing about the Notting Hill Yeah.

carnival where you you get people stabbed, you get people raped, you get all sorts of sort of violence going on. But no, these are these are a lot of them patriots and they they they've had enough of of what's happening. And I think woe bide those people in power who now continue to ignore what I call the bedrock of this country. And I and my constituency, by the way, on our on our petition, they were the true patriots. They led the charge.

And and curiously enough, uh Bridget Philipsson's constituency came a close second. Hton and Sunderland South, I think it is. So, you know, we can see it from the the heat map of the voting. So, uh I I think you have to you can't look at the the the metropolitan connibations now. You can't really look at the Birminghams or the Londons or the Bristols.

you you were talking about Bristol earlier. I don't think they represent what I call the heartlands of England. And that's why I went to stand in in Norolk where we've got real people who still care deeply about their local community and about their country and their patriots.

We agree. It's too many.

but it's a two it's two side. That's one part of it. The other part of it is look at the amount of people signing themselves off with mental health here. Look at the amount of people who are claiming motability cars and payments for indolence. That has to be sorted out before we start saying we need to bring in more people.

I mean ultimately I think I think government misguidedly thinks the more people uh they bring in the higher the GDP. But that the higher the less skilled they are the lower the GDP per capita which is falling fast. Yeah. And as you can probably see our economy is not growing. I think we're heading for a catastrophe on that front because we've got what I call chalk jockeyies in Rachel Reeves and and and and a lot of the people making these decisions.

They haven't got a clue. They've never run a business in their lives. and they just don't understand it. So despite the fact they think they can centrally plan a recovery, they won't because what's happening is the key drivers of the economy are leaving, there is no reason at the moment to take risk. If you take risk and you win because taxes are so high, they take it all off you.

If you if you take risk and you lose, you still have to write the check for the investment you've made. And you have a lot of trouble from HMRC trying to get the appropriate uh tax breaks that that you deserve. And there are all sorts of Osborne heal traps which which mean that if Andrew Gold or Robert Low invest in something it goes wrong. Ah well you can only offset a certain amount against this year and then after that it's all different. And it's it's not as if you invest lose and then offset against other income.

you you can get badly caught, you know, and I I I I've been caught on a number of occasions on what I think are just completely illogical, petty-minded rules that are designed to basically take money off decent, risk-taking entrepreneurs and and and pay it to an indolent state who is spunking our money up against the wall every day. That that's that's where it's all wrong.

Well, I I think I think it Nigel was aware of what was going on. So So let's just if we if we go back to the history of it. So I I have a history of of of fighting for a sovereign Britain. I like nation states. The globalists hate nation states because a bit like the family they create accountability albeit in a in in the shape of a nation but the family creates accountability in in in accountability to your family.

And I know Jewish people have very very very strong family ethics which I think is great. Yeah. So I I I've always wanted the nation state. So I I I stood uh I fought against the master treaty. I then I then stood in for the referendum party which is Sir James Goldsmith's party in 1997.

I kept my deposit in in the Cotswwells where where I live got 6.6% of the vote and we actually saved the pound. I I believe the country owes Sir James Gmith a huge debt of gratitude cuz he spent £50 million or thereabouts of his own money then. And a lot of the arguments we made were the same arguments that we ended up making in 2016 except we were talking about protecting the currency ra rather than protecting our sovereignty which and your currency is a function of your sovereignty. If you lose your currency, you lose your sovereignty. So that's why the euro is just it's it's a pipe dream of an experiment which is doomed to failure by the way.

It will fail. It will fail. So we then I did a lot of business for Sterling. I did a lot for vote leave and then when we didn't get what the people had voted for 17.4 million people in 2016 which was a sovereign Britain which was a Britain where parliament is omnipotent which passed laws that were then adhered to because again the judiciary as I said earlier has been undermined so I think they've gone woke and actually corrupt a lot of the time. So that's a big worry that's that's going to take a lot of sorting out.

So I then uh carried on um and I was elected to the Brexit party uh with Nigel uh and I think 29 other people at the time and I spent whatever it was eight or nine months in the European Parliament until we got ourselves out of the European Union technically although we didn't properly cuz Nigel asked us all to vote for it even though we were arguing about the uh Northern Ireland protocol which we thought meant that there was a hook keeping us in which I I still think there is and it's now the Windsor agreement which is even worse but that that's that's probably a discussion for another day. So we then got us out of Europe. Nigel and we all had dinner uh just shortly after we left and Nigel said he had no money and therefore he left the battlefield and he went off to make money at broadcasting or whatever he does. Uh meanwhile uh um Dicky Ty uh and I and and and a few other people, we carried on uh and and the Brexit Party became the Reform Party. So without Nigel, he wasn't there.

And and I I played my part in asking Nigel to come back because I thought it was going to help us uh when we got to to the election. and I thought he shared my vision. Uh, and he he actually understood the essence of what we were all trying to achieve. So, we didn't really talk too deeply about it because I think the job was a big job. You had two two parts to the job.

First was to get ourselves elected to parliament and the second was then to win an election and then the third obviously was to structure if you win the election is to structure a plan to actually deliver for the British people. There's no point in winning the election like Boris did and not delivering. That's that's the worst outcome for all of us. So Nigel came back, I went east, as I said, stood in Great Yarmouth, who by the way are great people. I'm I'm I I've grown to like Great Yarmouth hugely.

Um and so we then went about five of us in par Parliament. It's a big job just five of you. you know, you you as I say, the power of the government, huge what I call landslip election victory which Labour got. Uh then you had the tries of the of the opposition. So between the two of them, they they really control parliament.

So we we had to start making these these these arguments. And anyway, towards the end of last year, I I said tonight, we're going to win the election. We we people have had enough. They're they're going to vote for change. I said, what's the plan?

And this is the genesis of the of the of the difference between us. And and there isn't there is not a plan at the moment. And Nigel isn't that interested in policy. Uh I think Nigel in my view is interested in Nigel. Uh I'm interested in changing the way in which we govern for the better for for my children.

I have four children. Uh I I you know I want to see them with more opportunity. Otherwise, rather like the cab driver this this afternoon, I I will be saying go east, go to real economies, which again would be very sad because this when I was brought up was the best place in the world to live by by a mile. So then uh not much happened and I gave an interview to Andrew Pierce uh in in the mail and at that point reform obviously made the decision despite the fact I was playing a big part in driving reform support and I'd spoken as you may have seen my speech at the conference last year in in in Birmingham not this year last year in in in in in after we were elected um for some reason they Zia Ysef Nigel Lee Anderson that they made up a pack of lies about me. You haven't heard the end of it yet cuz it's it it's in with the lawyers at the moment and it will turn very nasty without a shadow of a doubt cuz what they did was just unethical, uncchristian and unfair.

But they wanted it to suit their script. So uh you know they they they uh basically politically assassinated me. I didn't see it coming. I I thought, you know, I I I was an integral part of what we were doing. But for some reason, they decided that maybe I was threatening Nigel too much with my profile or I I honestly don't know why, Andrew.

I mean, I without being big-headed, I think I'm a better man than Nigel in terms of my experience of life and and and I'm a bit older than him. You know, I've got many more business interests than him. I mean, he was he worked on the London Metal Exchange. you know, I I worked in commodities. I' I've been in the city for 20 years.

I've been involved in lots of different businesses. I still have lots of different businesses if you look at my CV. So, no, I I I honestly don't know. But what they did was just morally wrong. And uh I I I basically became an independent.

I've set up Restore Britain. I'm absolutely clear that we need as a country to unite common sense thought. It's not about being right or left. It's about common sense. It's about bringing together those patriots who want their country back.

And you don't do that by dividing people. You do it by uniting people. Which is why Restore Britain, we've got a lot of members now. We had our first direct democracy vote where we got thousands of people voted.

Charlie's working for us. Yeah. Charlie's working for us. We've got we got some great people. Harrison Pit.

Yeah. Smart guys. Rob Bates. Yeah. We we've got some No, we're building a young team.

I say to them all, it's not just about me. I I I think again reform is arguably mainly about Nigel. Uh it's about all of us. We are we're a team and what we have to do is unite the country because what this these malign influences can't fight Andrew is they can't fight a united common sense body of of England and Britain who actually doesn't like what's happening. And I and I think we've got to the stage now this country is very slow to react.

And look at the beating we've taken collectively. Just look at what these bureaucrats have done to decent people who most of the time just want to go about bringing their family up, you know, educating their children, living their lives. They don't want to have to worry about politics quite rightly.

No, that's what they said. But that's absolutely that's rubbish. And that that will all come out that will all come out in court. And I was I mean they made palpably false witness statements against me. I was under police investigation which was dropped because it was rubbish.

Uh, I think Lee Anderson said I was going around Parliament saying I was a very good shot. I I I don't know because the police won't show me the witness statements if they exist. Very good shot. I was very good shot and I was going to shoot Zia Ysef which complete poppycock. You know, I'm I'm a 67y old law-abiding citizen with a clean record.

And then Zia Ysef said I I stood over him in a meeting and threatened to hit him and made a witness statement to that effect. 3 months after the meeting uh in question and to suit this agenda of the interview with Andrew Pierce uh and then this sort of political attempt at assassination which has failed and it's not it's going to backfire on them big time because I haven't finished yet but I've got a few other bushes to burn before I go in for the for the final kudra.

So, so no, but and I mean today I thought Danny Krueger leaving to join reform after what they did to me was quite extraordinary. But, uh, obviously he's got his own decision to make, but I I I I think it's it's a very bad decision for him.

But it wasn't I'm I look I'm not anti-semitic. I I don't I actually I think I think I think um you know that the Jewish people have contributed hugely to this country and I I have no problem with that. I just in my day though if something was tiny you you know or somebody was a bit mean. I mean you'd say that um Yorkshire are even more mean than than Jewish people. It was just a joke we used to make.

And again, I get sick of this politically correct rubbish. But I was we were told we were we weren't on camera, right? And this was reported by some some girl. We did make a formal complaint, but they didn't do anything about it. Uh who was very close to uh uh Dan Jukes, who's who's one of Nigel's right-hand man.

So So they obviously thought they'd dig this out and and cause me a problem like they've done with my dog, Cromwell. We've set up the Cromwell Club at um at at at Restore Britain. Got a lot of members of the Cromwell Club. People who pay £25,000 a year to be a member of the club, which is great. Um so, look, I mean, I made a little joke.

There was a tiny little camera and I said, "Well, in my day, we'd have called that a Jewish camera just because it was so small." There was absolutely nothing to it. And frankly, I don't want to live in a Britain where we have such petty- minded

We said is is it on camera they said no and then of course they had it on camera and they used it which again look I do I feel ashamed of it. No, I know. I agree. But I don't care. But you know, and again, I think the most the three most powerful words in Britain nowadays are I don't care.

So when Emily Makers call me a racist, I don't care. I know I'm not a racist, so who cares?

Well, I look, I think what's happened is we've had this sort of um takeover by these gray people who don't sing in their baths, who have all this sort of um uh bizarre ideology which which I will never understand uh you know uh this business of you know even Pierers Morgan I don't agree with him on very much but you know he doesn't get the difference between what's non-binary and nobody can explain it. So, you know, all this rubbish, but these people feast on lots of small rules, lots of uh pettiness. Uh, and I think we've just got to throw all that off and and and hopefully we'll get back to a society where in my day, you know, people used to pull everybody's leg and you know, uh, when I was chairman of Southampton, I had a wonderful football player called Carlton Palmer. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Who used to be from Birmingham. Great guy. Yeah. And uh he said to me, "Chairman, I'm the only only one who can call him a lazy black man cuz I'm black." I said, "I know Colton. I wouldn't dare call him that cuz I' I' I've been marched to the nearest sort of um pillary and put in there." U he he was he was a great guy.

He we could have a laugh, you know. They all went on after we stayed up that year, we they all went to Marbay on a on an outing and had an absolutely fantastic time. He look these are great people and they he was

No.

Oh, I did see that. Yes. But it's such nonsense. But the Premier League's gone woke. It's so woke.

I mean taking the knee. I mean this chap Richard Masters needs to get a grip of himself. I I mean they are I'm afraid they've gone woke and I don't think a lot of the players agree with it but they have to go along with it because again uh well the five golden rules of business what's in it for me they all earn huge salaries and if they want to play as you say they have to they have to take the knee and they have to get on with it but um do I agree with it? No. Black Lives Matter by the way is one of the most malevolent dishonest organizations that's ever walked the planet.

So, we were brought up in my day, sticks and stones would break my bones, but words will never hurt me. But, you know, it seems that words now can hurt everybody.

Look I mean I I I was talking to Lee who at one time I you know he was he was technically in in in reform with me and and he was the chief whip so we used to talk to each other a lot and his dog was dying and he was talking about how he's going to take it to the vet. I said, "Well, we we I we don't tend to take them to the vet." I said, "I've got a very old dog. It's a Labrador who's nearly 17, which is incredibly old for a Labrador." And I said, "You know, he's getting he can't see, he can't hear, his back legs are going." But I said, "When his back legs go, I I won't take him to the vet. I will just ask my keeper to quietly do what's necessary, which is, I think, far kinder. The net outcome is the same.

Uh you don't put them in a car. You don't take them to a vet. You don't give them all the stress that they get. They don't even know.

He was fine. He He He does it to his own dogs. I mean, it's a It's something people in the country do.

No. I mean, it's a difficult thing anyway. I don't think he did find it difficult. He He's He's a countryman.

He shoots, you know, vermin and and and and and and he's used to feeasant uh keeping feeasants and and and and and you know, he's he's a man of the country.

I mean I I I personally would be proud to be able to do it myself, but I couldn't do it myself because obviously that dog had been with us a a long time. Uh but for me it was a much kinder way of uh putting him uh uh down uh when you know taking him to the vet and and and all of the having to lift him into the car and everything else would have been a would have been a challenge for him and a challenge for us. So So no, it's a much better way of doing it.

I would have found it difficult to do it but um I I think you know my keeper's used to doing that to his own dogs as I say and it's a very common thing in the country and I I do think this is part of a a problem we've got to try and bridge which is the countryside is very different to what I call the the the herbs the urbans and the urban brigade you know they they've I think they've lost touch with where their food comes from. uh they've lost touch with seasons. They don't have their own vegetable garden. I mean, some people have their a lotment. I'm fanatical about growing my own vegetables.

I'm fanatical about farming, you know. I love uh I love growing things. Uh and I'm a country boy. I was brought up on a farm. So, I I think it's sad that people have lost sight of that.

and and actually one day they will ru the fact that they don't know the seasons and they don't know where their food comes from and they don't you know they don't know about the things that have made us what we are and I I I like to keep in touch with that. So, look, that was a and it was a very cheap uh shot from from Lee to to leak that to to the media, which clearly he did. And, you know, I did get some people coming on to me uh saying, you know, how I was cruel and all the rest of it, but no, I I to me I again I I'm very comfortable with what happened and I it doesn't feel cruel to me. It was the right way of do dealing with it, you know. Just because other people don't agree.

I mean, the net outcome is completely the same.

No, we did. No, we did. We did. We we we my wife and I did and and gave him the keeper. Took him literally 20 yards and and and that was it.

It was it was And then we we all buried him and and stood around his grave above the tennis court and said some prayers for him.

That's where all our dogs are. All our dogs that that that that die are up up by the tennis court and the guinea pig. Uh what else is up there? A few other things that have

I I don't tend to cry. I I'm a public school boy and I I guess, you know, people would say I'm repressed and I've been I've been trained not to cry, but look, who knows? Uh things things happen which, you know, can elicit tears. I I I guess the only time I tell you what I I tell you what I did cry, Andrew. I tell I did cry.

There's a wonderful film called Ring of Bright Water.

And there's an otter in that film. Yeah. and and it's it it was it was um Virginia McKenna and and is he called Travis, Bill Travis? I think one of the Travis's. Anyway, he had an otter and she was looking after it and the otter ran on a ditch and a man digging the ditch killed the otter with his spade and I remember I did cry in that film.

No.

The best one with the butler, of course. The servant.

With D Bogart. Have you heard of The Servant?

Joseph Lozy film. If you haven't seen that, you got to watch The Servant. I know that one. Bit like Death in Venice. Have you watched Death in Venice?

Darling, another dirt burger god. Absolutely top films. You got to watch him.

I haven't seen uh Remains of the Day.

Watch. You watch The Servant and we'll have a we'll have a chat about the Servant.

I I haven't said it's up to people what they do. I I'm a great believer, but I I in my opinion, having seen what I've seen, I don't think reform will do anything other than let us down. That's my opinion. And I think we can't as a country afford now to elect Boris Johnson, Mark 2, in the form of of Nigel, who I don't I don't think Nigel and the problem Nigel's got in my view, he's he is he's he's a great talker, stands on his back two legs. uh if you actually listen to him, some of the content isn't that deep, but and it's quite repetitive, but he's handed over or did hand over a lot of the administrative stuff to Zia Ysef, which was a mystery because Zia Ysef appeared from nowhere.

He's 38 years old. He gave barely more than I spent getting myself elected. I funded my own campaign in Great Yamouth. I I funded the campaign in Kingswood. you know, I I I gave a lot over many years to to reform and the Brexit Party, but he's he's young.

He was he's he he was briefly at Goldman Sachs and then he had set up this thing called Velocity Black, which uh when I checked him out, uh he had uh there were some question marks, but Nigel for some reason appointed him. Uh he's had a fairly volatile time at at reform. As you probably know, originally he was he was basically chairman and then he uh effectively he's now I think in charge of Doge or it seems to change. It seems to mutate like the AIDS virus what his job what his job is. But but I think I think you know he is a person I don't get on with him.

The genesis of the issue between he and I was he started messing around with my branch in Great Yarmouth and um I told him there are 650 MPs in parliament. We've got five. When you've got the other 645 running on rails, then you can come and start pissing down my back in great Yarmouth. Until then, sex and travel. And he didn't like that.

So, which I think is perfectly fair. You know, I I I I have a great uh relationship with both Norfolk and with my great Yarmouth constituency. And the last thing I needed was somebody undermining my position uh when I'm I'm one of the five MPs in parliament. But again, all this stuff I think just went over Nigel's head. He's not an administrator.

He's he's a he's he's a he's a sort of but he's a personality. He's a personality and he's and he's and he's a big picture man. U but and he's into the cult of Nigel.

well, he played a part in that. I think you've got to go back and look at what, you know, people like Jimmy Goldmith and myself did in 97. If Jimmy Goldsmith hadn't stood up in 97 and made the arguments he made, there would have been no way we could have had the Brexit party because we'd have been part of the euro. 97 was about surrendering to the euro. Now, John Major wanted the euro.

Patty Ashnan wanted the euro. Tony Blair wanted the euro. They all wanted the euro. The establishment wanted the euro. They'll deny it now, but I tell you, they all wanted the euro.

So, most of Europe signed up to the euro. You're talking about this this postwar globalist plan to to effectively and they had to subjugate this country. This country was a proud sovereign nation after the war. They knew they couldn't do it immediately. So it was all done by guile, by deceit.

So the whole thing is founded on deceit. Indeed, the genesis of the European Union is the is the is the European coal and steel community, the ECSC, right? What was that? A monopoly. A monopoly for goodness sake.

So it hasn't changed. It's its culture as a monopoly. It it thinks of itself as a monopoly. And at the end of the day, its plan was to integrate and destroy the nation state. Why do you think they divided Britain into nine regions?

Why they undermined the act of union by basically setting up a parliament in Scotland and a Senate in Wales? Joke. The Scottish Parliament is the most dishonest parliament uh in Europe. Now, it's Scotland's economics, Andrew, are far worse than England's. We are funding them.

And yet they and yet I don't any of them understand quite how bad their economy is. Well, I I believe that Wales is the same. I believe that and whilst I I do believe in the act of union and I believe in in in in basically in government from Westminster and I do uh think Northern Ireland which as you know was created out of the Irish civil war. Yeah. uh uh because of the Northern Irish Protestants who effectively were loyal and always have been loyal, but they're very badly treated often to this country.

So, you've got the act of union in 1707 which brought Scotland in. And gradually this these islands have been stronger by being united, but the plan was to divide them, which is what they did very cleverly did. It all goes back to Tony Blair. They had a plan. They undermined the judiciary.

What do you think the Supreme Court's all about?

I think Nigel is uh I called him the messiah. I called him in that interview with with with he is the messiah. you know, he's basically very good at promoting uh himself and and getting getting media headlines and he's good at winning. Although I think you have to give credit to and again I I don't particularly get on with Richard Tyson. I certainly don't get on with his with his girlfriend Isabel Oakshot who knows Dubai.

Um but look, I give him credit because at least he stood up with people like David Bull and with other people like Benhabib. We all kept we all kept the reform party going when Nigel left the battlefield.

He then he then rode back and yes, I think he the Nigel factor definitely gave us I don't know five 5% in the polls, which is why I was keen for him to come back. So, I give him I've given him credit, but what I don't what I don't give people credit for is being dishonest. And I think he was dishonest with me. Uh, and I think he was dishonest because he actually, if you listen to him, he disagreed with what Zia Ysef did. He said, if you listen to him, there's a clip of him saying, um, a chairman has many decisions to make.

Most of them has got right, but maybe this one he hasn't got right. He said, so he knows he knows.

but that's why I set up restore cuz I I restore Britain is about unifying and I I really think the power of a united English stroke British people is what's going to change the way we're governed.

It's it's it's and look I talked to Ben. I get on very well with Ben. We were in the European Parliament together. He chose not to come east with me. I tried to persuade him to come to Suffuk Coastal where he where he would have won Theresa Coffey's seat and he would have been a very very good MP.

And this is the essence although Parliament is is a bit of a a farce, it gives you the power that that that it gives you credibility. And that's what Ben has been lacking, I think, recently.

Yeah. And and my heart was with with that march. I'm with the people. You know, a lot of the people who work for us went went on that march. They're real people.

These are not people who are trying to destabil destabilize this country. So, we've got to find a way of uniting. But that means uniting everybody. It doesn't just mean uniting a few factions. We've got to unite the entire British population.

and we've got to encourage them to stand up for common sense, which is what I think they're ready to do. Um, we have to then, you're quite right, give them a platform which when they elect it is going to deliver for them and not for the people they elect. So that's that's the key as I see it now. So restore uh uh there are many ways restore can go. So the more people who sign up, the more power we get.

you saw today. I mean, we we literally filled that petition in in in in whatever it was, 5 and a half, 6 hours, 6 and 1/2 hours, whatever it was. I mean, nothing even shorter than than the Lucy Connelly petition we did. So, we're starting to to get the the power to to change things. And I think, you know, with with my speeches on on on mass deportations, my speeches on the rape gangs, I have moved the Overton window in Parliament as much as I possibly can as an MP.

I mean, one lone independent MP who sometimes has to sit on his backside for up to three or four hours to get a question because I'm treated like a a grunt. You know, I'm I don't have a party. I'm not either the government or or the the formal opposition or even indeed even Ed Davy's joke of a lib dem. Uh, you know, not even the Greens or or I'm not even, you know, the Scottish the brave hearts as I call them who who

Yeah. No. Well, I I would be very disappointed, Andrew, if they didn't, but uh but no, so so it's it's although it's a very and I'm incredibly honored and humbled that people elected me, and I'm and I'm doing my best to deliver for them, but I don't want to see them raise their hopes and then have those hopes dashed by a group of people who aren't necessarily going to deliver for them. And in order to deliver for them, there has to be a detailed plan. There has to be a plan.

I've got and that's what's lacking.

Well, restore Britain.org. Just go on to our website and join up.

Join up and you'll be able to vote on policies we put forward. You'll be able to suggest putitive policies for us. We've got another one. The next one that people people are very keen on and you've probably seen it on our on our Twitter feed last week in our social media feed is is people think we shouldn't be giving illegal migrants any benefits. Well, I agree with that.

Come here illegally. Why should you get any benefits? Why should you go to the top of the waiting list for medical treatment, for housing? Why should you get spending money? No.

No. We should be looking after our veterans. We should be looking after the English, the British, the people who've actually paid into the system. I mean, why why on earth would anyone think that's not logical? So, and our our memberships, that's going to probably be our Well, we'll see.

That's going to probably be one of our next uh major policies. My my favorite is an Englishman's home is his castle. I I I think um again, we need to get back to a bit of personal responsibility. If somebody breaks into your house, wo tide, what happens to them? It's they shouldn't be there.

Well, I mean I love Javier Mili. I I I think he is he is a fantastic guy in Argentina. Yeah. Um I mean my hero was was Oliver Cromwell. I I loved Oliver Cromwell.

You know, as he quite rightly said, I a king can lose a hundred battles, but if I lose one, then I lose my head. I like that. So, and and he never lost a battle. So, you know, the guy was exceptional. So yeah, and he changed Britain for the better.

And actually he was very good to the the Jews. He was very good to, you know, he fought the