BBC Radio 4 Today interview with Nick Robinson: social care, the triple lock and Brexit

You said that people can't wait forever for change in your speech on this stage. So, why in that speech did you set out a whole series of major changes an actual care service, a closer relationship with Europe, changing our voting system, none of which can happen for years?

Let's go through some of the changes starting with that big one on social care. Why hit pensioners not the wealthiest in your first big policy announcement?

I'm asking you how you pay for that because you you've set out that ambition repeatedly. What's new is you've now told us how you want to pay for it. And you're wanting to pay for it by scrapping the triple lock, by scrapping the guarantee to pensioners.

But let's put it simply, the clever people behind the scenes who brief us after speeches like your speech say, "This will save 15 billion pounds a year eventually." That's 15 billion pounds that would have been going to pensioners, which is why I ask you, "Why are you taking money from pensioners and not," as Sharon Graham of Unite the Union would say, "take it from the wealthy. Don't take it from pensioners."

You You're saying it's a deal, forgive me interrupting, but you're saying effectively it's a deal. You get something new, but we have to take something back a bit.

check what you mean by that, you see, because you've talked about a free national care service, free at the point of use. But can we be clear that is if you get care in your own home? If you go into a residential home like your dad did, for example, you'll still pay your bed and board, won't you?

might end up selling your family house to pay the bills which are what, 50 to 100,000 pounds?

very clear. You've been honest about it, as you said you would be, which is people who move into a residential home, they still face the risk of losing their home to pay those bills. Can we deal with the crisis that's facing people now, this winter? The boss of EDF, the big energy firm, has been talking to the BBC, and he says this winter we face another energy crisis. Is that how you see it as Prime Minister?

And you're going to have to look at giving people more help, because you proclaim from this stage that you were cutting VAT off electricity bills, as you've just said. Now, you'll know the numbers. That saves people around £45 off their energy bill. But, prices are going up by £60 a year tomorrow. They're due to go up, that's the forecast, another £276. So, your VAT cut's already been wiped out. Will you look at further help?

So, looking at fuel duty, for example, which

Now, if there's an energy crisis, as you've conceded, there's another crisis at the moment globally, a borrowing crisis. The global markets are demanding more to lend countries money than they have for, what, 20 years or so. But Britain has a particular problem. It costs more for the Treasury here to borrow money than it costs Greece, than it costs Italy, than it costs France. Why didn't you say something in this big speech today to try and say to the global markets, "We've got this under control. We're going to cut spending. We aren't going to borrow as much in the future."

doesn't that doesn't make our borrowing any better.

Well, you hope it'll reduce revenue spending, but the point I'm making to you is that you then plan to spend it on something else. So, not just social care, but the other thing you didn't spend long talking about. You are committed to a huge increase in defense spending and you've yet to tell us how you'll pay for it. And we still don't know the answer and there's no prospect of an answer if as soon as you make a cut to spending you say, "Oh, I've got a plan to expand government. We'll get a national care service. Let's spend it on that."

I want to ask you briefly if I could about two other big changes that you talked about from this conference stage. Brexit. Ideally, in your heart, you want us to rejoin the EU, don't you?

Mr. Burnham. That sounds like yes, but I don't want to say it.

There's another big reform you spoke about, Prime Minister, which is voting reform. You're saying that's what you want to happen, that we have European style voting in Britain.

words, you want to stop Nigel Farage becoming Prime Minister.

Again and again, when you wanted to be Prime Minister, now you are Prime Minister, you talked about rolling back 40 years of of failure as you see it. Why, as Prime Minister now, do you talk more about the 1980s than about 2020s? Isn't it a backward-looking speech, rather than a speech that says, "Here are the big challenges, the energy crisis, the AI crisis, the crisis of what Russia is doing and what China is doing?"

You talked very movingly about your father, who died just a couple of weeks ago. Wouldn't he have been the first to tell you, "Don't be nostalgic, son. Look [snorts] to the future. Look to your kids' future. Don't bang on about Margaret Thatcher."

Forgive me. You You You saw a message that someone had predicted. John Swinney, is it? The First Minister of

You stood on this stage. There's the euphoria that you had. And when you came to the moment you were going to speak about your dad, you had to stop, didn't you? And people got to their feet to give you space to compose yourself. Does it just feel like you're on a an emotional roller coaster all the time?