Dashboard/Kemi Badenoch/BBC News interview with Chris Mason: youth jobs, Reform, the triple lock and the NHS
Interview · 6 Oct 2026

BBC News interview with Chris Mason: youth jobs, Reform, the triple lock and the NHS

Kemi Badenoch, Leader of the Opposition

Video: YouTube: BBC Politics (official channel). Retrieved 7 Oct 2026.

In the record, not in the score. 146 sentences and 22 questions from YouTube captions. The selection rule did not choose it, so it does not count towards the score. How transcripts are chosen
Claim checkedClaim found, not checkedEmotional passage flagged as deflectingEmotional passage, fits the subject

The words of Kemi Badenoch. Transcript from the video's captions, fetched on 2026-10-07; not an official record. Captions do not say who is speaking: Polifiles assigned each turn by reading the captions, without checking the audio. BBC Politics' upload of the BBC News interview recorded at the Conservative conference in Birmingham (10 minutes), from the first question; the closing thanks are left out. The presenter is named in the video description (BBC Political Editor Chris Mason) and in the captions ("Chris, the world has changed"). Turns assigned by meaning rather than the '>>' marks; a few short fragments where the voices overlap ("policy didn't work", "in this future") are given to Chris Mason, and her one-word "Yeah" inside his last question is left with it. Trimmed: ends at "They're going to miss him so much.". Questions are shown in grey boxes. Tap a marked sentence to see the label and its sources. Other speakers' full contributions are in the video.

Chris Mason
Tell me better not you're announcing that you'll cut employers national insurance for people aged 21 to 24. How are you going to pay for it?

So uh we need to do this because uh youth unemployment has skyrocketed. It's the first time we're above uh the EU um unemployment average for for young people. Uh so we actually found the money last year. We had a program called the first jobs bonus. And what we've seen with increasing youth unemployment is that you can't give people a first jobs bonus if they're not getting a first job.

So I'm changing uh that

No, no. Well, well, well, we haven't been able to implement it. But the world is getting worse for young people. So, we're adapting and updating our policy so that it works for the problems they have today.

AnsweredAsked how the Conservatives would pay for cutting employer national insurance for 21- to 24-year-olds. Says the money was found last year for the first jobs bonus, which is being replaced by this policy.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
Why not cut employers national insurance for everyone? You've called it a jobs tax. If it is a jobs tax, why are you leaving it the same for for most employees?

Uh we have to find the money first. So uh we have a golden economic rule. Uh we are being fiscal fiscally credible. We find savings and then we spend it. If I could afford to cut it for everybody.

I promise you that I would. But young people have a much worse problem than everybody else. Uh I've talked about uh the unemployment uh that that's skyrocketing. We've seen an increase since Labour came into office of 174,000. It's now 750,000 young people who are unemployed.

We've got to fix that. There's a graduate recruitment crisis and if young people don't get a job early that impacts their lifetime earnings. So I'm really focusing this on them. I want to help young people.

AnsweredAsked why not cut employer national insurance for everyone if it is a jobs tax. Says savings must be found first, a cut for everyone is not affordable, and young people face a worse problem.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
Let's talk about the state of your party. I'm struck that here at the conference people seem upbeat. They seem chipper and yet the Conservatives are polling worse now than at the last election which itself was catastrophic. Are you collectively all in denial?

Uh we are feeling chipper because we are going back to first principles. I see you've got a copy of my my booklet, The Right Way. We are going back to the authentic Conservative Party that people knew and loved.

Partly answeredAsked whether the party is in denial, given polling worse than at the last election. Says members are upbeat because the party is going back to first principles; does not address the polling.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
But you're less popular when you get absolutely hammered in a general election.

Well, well, well, well, let's see. Let an election be called. We know who we are. We know what we think. We're going the right way.

Uh we're not being

DodgedPressed that the party is less popular now than when it lost heavily. Says 'let's see' and 'we know who we are', without addressing the polling.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
one in five people in the opinion polls seems to be suggesting at the moment they would back the Conservatives. How do you win an election from that point?

Because we're not out of the woods yet. So, uh people at conference aren't happy because we're about to win an election. We're happy because we know who we are. We're not afraid to say what we think and we're prepared to fight for what we believe. And that's the message that we're taking out to the country.

And when people see that we're a different Conservative party, they will vote for us.

Partly answeredAsked how the party wins from one in five in the polls. Says it is not out of the woods and voters will back a different Conservative party once they see it, without a route from the current position.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
You guys are going around the conference saying you can win the next general election. And yet you're on lower poll ratings when you were than when you were annihilated at the last election. How do you win an election from this point?

Chris, the world has changed. We are in a multi-party era. We had a prime minister who came in on a landslide and he was out in two years. Politics is volatile. We're in a different political world and it is within that context that we know that we can win.

I'm not saying that we would win. The current polling shows a hung parliament, no party getting an overall majority. My prediction is that there would be another election um uh immediately after. But we're the only credible alternative to Labor. Only ones with a plan.

Look at what we talked about um on the fence today.

AnsweredAsked again how the party wins from lower poll ratings than in 2024. Says politics is volatile in a multi-party era, polls point to a hung parliament, and so a win is possible, while not predicting one.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
Let's look at a scenario then after a general election. Let's imagine it is a hung parliament and that you're the largest party but reformer are a significant party too. Would you work with them in government?

If you want conservative, you have to vote conservative. We've been

DodgedAsked whether she would work with Reform in government in a hung parliament. Says that to get Conservative policies people should vote Conservative.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
scenario. What would you do?

I I have said that we would have another election if there was no overall majority.

AnsweredPressed on what she would do in that scenario. Says she has said there would be another election if no party had a majority.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
With the keys to Downing Street dangling,

uh I I am afraid that what I want are reform voters to come back. The people in reform are neck deep in scandal. It would just be one problem after another. Look at them. Their leader in Wales had to step down after being arrested.

The one before him is in prison for taking bribes from Russia. I don't have time for that. I want to get this economy growing. I want to make the country richer. I want to stop the boats.

We've got a plan on borders. We've got a plan on welfare. We've got a plan on defense and bringing energy costs down. That's what we're about.

Partly answeredPressed again on whether she would refuse a deal with Reform with power within reach. Says she wants Reform voters back and that Reform is beset by scandal, which implies no without saying it.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
Prime Minister said last week that he would scrap the current state pension uh triple lock, making rises in it less generous. Are you committed to keeping the triple lock?

If people want the triple lock, they need to vote conservative. That is our policy. I have said that we would keep it. I do not think that that is where our economic problems.

AnsweredAsked whether she is committed to keeping the triple lock. Says it is the party's policy and she has said it would keep it.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
So, you will promise to keep it in the next manifesto and a future conservative government would keep it.

I have said that very very clearly. I said it this morning on BBC. I said it to Laura Kunberg on Sunday. I said it to you before. This is this is our policy.

Partly answeredAsked whether she will promise it in the next manifesto and in government. Says she has said so clearly and it is the policy, without mentioning the manifesto.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
Yeah. But the twist is is that the government is going to press ahead to legislate to move towards what it wants to do in the next parliament between now and the election. In other words, you could become prime minister with the triple lock as it currently is having gone. So, do you then reverse back to how it is now?

Well, what I'm not going to do because it would be disingenuous to your viewers is speak in hypothetical.

Declined openlyAsked whether she would restore the triple lock if Labour has changed it by the election. Says she will not answer a hypothetical.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
No, it's not hypothetical because the because it's about a principle, isn't it? You either believe in the triple lock or you don't.

I believe in fiscal responsibility. What have they done with that money? because that would make an that would have an impact. What has Andy Burnham done with that money

DodgedAsked whether she believes in the triple lock in principle. Says she believes in fiscal responsibility and asks what Andy Burnham has done with the money.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
in this future hyper believes in it now for this parliament?

I'm saying that if you want the triple lock at after the next election, you've got to vote conservative. What I can't do, you know, you just heard me talk about um uh changing the first jobs bonus. As circumstances change, we may have to adapt to things. I don't know what that situation will be, but if people want to keep the triple lock, vote conservative. That's the policy.

Partly answeredAsked whether she believes in it only for this Parliament. Says people who want the triple lock after the election should vote Conservative, but circumstances may change.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
But if Labour scrap it, you're not committing to reinstating it.

So, so I don't I I'm not I'm not playing that game. I think it is dishonest to viewers because I don't know what the situation would be. I want to be honest with your viewers. I tell them what I can pay for, what I can't pay for, I don't promise. We can pay for the triple lock now.

Goodness knows what disaster Andy Vernum is bringing um around the corner. But with any luck, he won't be um uh prime minister after the next election. Uh I will be and I will be fixing the economy.

Declined openlyPut to her that she is not committing to reinstate it if Labour scraps it. Says she will not promise what she does not know she can pay for, and that the triple lock is affordable now.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
Let me ask you about your philosophical blueprint, the the the right way that you've published in the last few days. an intriguing line on it in page 42. Most urgently,

which wonder which section is that? Just remind me.

Ceremonial, not rated: Lead-in: the interviewer starts to quote her booklet and she asks which section; the question follows in x18.

Chris Mason
Well, I'll tell you because I'll quote a line from it. Most urgently, the NHS now needs fundamental change. What should that look like?

It has to, if you look in the um in the government section, it has to look like a system that is focused on patients first. Um that's something that the the the practitioners within the NHS are saying themselves that they want to see an NHS that is actually delivering more for patients rather than for the bureaucracy.

Partly answeredAsked what fundamental change to the NHS would look like. Says a system focused on patients rather than bureaucracy, without saying what would change.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
Just I want to be clear about what you mean by fundamental. Does fundamental ch mean changing or being willing to contemplate changing free at the point of use for everyone for everything.

No no if you read that chapter you'll see that I'm talking about bureaucracy. We have become an

AnsweredAsked whether fundamental change could mean ending free at the point of use. Says no, the chapter is about bureaucracy.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
managerial isn't it? I mean that's not fundamental change.

But but it is the NHS has become a bureaucracy with a little bit of health care on the side. That's got to change. That is fundamental.

AnsweredPut to her that cutting bureaucracy is managerial, not fundamental. Says the NHS has become mostly bureaucracy, so changing that is fundamental.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
And does that mean spending less? Because at the moment around one pound in every six of public spending goes on health and social care. Is that is that about right? Is that sustainable? You want to see that come down?

It is not sustainable with the way our economy is. My answer is to grow the economy. We are getting poorer. The poorer we are, the less we'll be able to fund our NHS. I want us to get richer.

So most of that pamphlet is about how we get the UK onto a better, stronger, wealthier economic footing.

Partly answeredAsked whether health spending at about one pound in six is sustainable and should come down. Says it is not sustainable with the economy as it is and the answer is growth; does not say whether spending should fall.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
I just wonder how fundamental this is. I mean, if we look at some broadly comparable European countries, take the Republic of Ireland where people most people pay to see a a GP. Is that something you would ever countenance for anyone?

Free at the point of care is something that I believe in. I think it's it's one of the wonderful things about the way our system works. But behind the scenes, how it is functioning, everybody complains. We've had reorganization after reorganization, the staff aren't happy, the patients aren't happy. So, we can't just leave it as it is.

Now, what I would like to hear is given the principles that I've set out um more ideas from staff themselves on how we can improve the NHS. Uh we've offered to work with Labor Cross Party. We spent more money than ever on the NHS. I remember um the 2017 to 2019 uh parliament. We put in record amounts uh of funding.

So, it's more than money now. It's just the way it's all wired. I'm not an expert on it, but I do want to hear from experts.

AnsweredAsked whether she would ever consider charges to see a GP, as in Ireland. Says she believes in care free at the point of use.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
Two final questions. I scrutinized the prime minister last week at some length about the scandal engulfing engulfing Manchester City. What in specific terms would you like him to do in the light of this ongoing scandal? Should he be publishing, for instance, all of the details of meetings, encounters with the with the owners during his time as as mayor? what he's willing to do in terms of potentially having to recuse himself from conversations at a bilateral level that could be happening with the United Arab Emirates.

I think transparency is essential. Uh if he's got nothing to hide, then he should open the books. He has made um a big uh deal about what he did for Manchester and um if it turns out that the story he's told is quite different and actually it was Abu Dhabi that was doing these things, not him, then let's hear the truth. with them. Andy Bernham is someone who says that he wants to be straight with people.

I was very surprised at the way he wed in on this subject. You would have heard me um you know when I became leader saying that governments should not be getting involved um in football and uh and tinkering with it. Uh let uh let the let the fans and the clubs uh run themselves properly. So let's see some transparency.

Partly answeredAsked what Andy Burnham should do about the Manchester City affair, such as publishing meetings or recusing himself. Says he should be transparent and 'open the books'; does not address recusal.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person
Chris Mason
Just finally, I've been struck hearing your reflections this morning on Jeffrey Archer, the passing of Jeffrey Archer and the frequency with which the two of you would be in touch, including indeed, as you've said um yesterday. Yeah. Give me a sense of those exchanges. Was he was he offering uh advice? How how

the last message was great speech, great outfit. Um uh then he would sign it Jeffrey NRN, no reply needed or by this make sure you read the Telegraph today, pageuh 70. So, he was reading the newspapers and messaging me. Um, if somebody was being critical, he'd be rude about them. I won't say who, um, uh, who or what as he's passing, but I did enjoy that rude.

Yes. And I'd ignore this person. They don't know what they're talking about. Uh, this this person is being really silly. Um, I'd ask him about his book.

I'm very pleased to have to have got a signed copy of the last book he wrote. He was supposed to be um, you know, uh, publicizing it this morning. So, it's a it's a real shock. Uh it's he's going to be very much missed by the conservative family. He he certainly wasn't perfect.

I'm sure um nobody would would say that he was, but um my heart and thoughts are with his family, especially um his wife D. Mary. She's a wonderful person as well. They're going to miss him so much.

AnsweredAsked about her exchanges with Jeffrey Archer. Describes his messages and pays tribute.Our model rated thisNot yet reviewed by a person